"By their fruits you will know them"

An OPEN DISCUSSION forum to discuss 3ABN RELATED ISSUES -including posts or articles published elsewhere.

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proffaberf451
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"By their fruits you will know them"

Post by proffaberf451 »

There has been much said about the character of 3ABN's attackers, and we know that the only thing we take from this earth to heaven is, our character. We also know that God requires that that character be a reflection of Him and we know that "God is love."

In the New Testament Christ explained the Ten Commandments in the simplest terms: The first part gives us a definition of the visual expression of our love for God. The second part gives us a definition of the visual expression of our love for our fellow man. Christ said, the law is explained simply, Love God with all your heart, love your fellow man exactly the way you desire to be loved. The latter of those admonitions can only be accomplished if we truly love the maker and His Father the way the former admonition defines.

The way we treat others tells the world what we think of God. There have been actions on both sides of this ledger that have shown the world that even those who profess to be followers of God, are filled with the spirit of sin - selfishness. This post, is one (if not, the) most egregious example of this behavior.
Robert Jude Pickle posting at AdventTalk wrote: I suggest that Duane, Roger, Greg, Alex, Brad, and the rest take the press release at face value and contact Samantha and offer to share their testimonies. Whether or not there is time in the program to share their testimonies, they certainly could mingle with the folks who came and talk with them. If news reporters show up, they could talk with them.

It probably isn't too late to get T-shirts made up for the occasion. You guys would know better than me what to put on them if such an idea is appropriate. ("I Survived Pastoral Abuse" on one side, and Tommy's mug shot behind bars on the other?)
RJP has justified his actions over time by claiming he is "called by God" to publicly expose the sins of his brothers in the Christian faith. He has defended his actions in such a way that he ranks sin on his own, self-designed scale of "wrongness." His sins are not as egregious as others or they justify his claim that he is "exposing sin." But, we know that Christ said, if you want to know how much a Christian loves their God you will see it in two ways: How they love God and How they love their fellow human beings. There are no qualifications, in either category. God doesn't say, "Only love those that are as good or better than you are." In the New Testament it is defined even more clearly, "Even as you have done it unto the least of these, you have done it unto Me."

If Christ stands in our steed in the courts of heaven and God sees only His atoning blood when He looks at each one of us, how can we do any less? In the post above by RJP, has he remembered his own fallen, sinful nature and remembered that he is unworthy to stand in his own defense in the heavenly court when he treats a Christian brother this way? Does RJP have a hidden desire to stand "pro-se" before the God of the Universe? It doesn't matter if Tommy Shelton is guilty as accused, not for one second. Any sin Tommy has committed is no different than any sin Robert Jude Pickle has committed. Sin is selfishness, every single iteration of sin is an act of selfishness and none is worse than any other.

It is clear that the personal degradation that RJP suggests be heaped on Tommy is contrary to the Biblical principle of, "Love God paramount, and love each other exactly as you desire to be loved." Does RJP want the Heavenly Father to love him the way he is loving Tommy? Or the way he is loving Danny, or even Linda, who he claims to defend? Is that the type of love that we experience from our Creator? Would you continue to be a Christian if you thought, for one minute, that God treated people the way RJP treats people? Would you want to align yourself with a God who "loved" you the way RJP is loving his fellow man?

I know what his argument would be, that he exposing sin, he is defending the name of God. Is he? Is this the God you read about in Scripture? In the 8th chapter of John we see how Christ would answer those questions. A women whose sins others had deemed "worse" than their own had been accosted, manhandled, and forced to stand before Christ. Proudly the Pharisees announced her sins before all the onlookers and Jesus. Their desire was not to help restore this woman the image of her Maker - it was to trap Christ and embarrass Him. It was a blatant attempt to cast the Savior as malcontent, as a liar, as a fraud. It was an act of selfishness on the part of those professed faithful believers in God. They wanted blood, the woman's blood, because in it they would be able to justify their own transgressions and the way in which they had misled the faithful. They would also claim the woman's blood was on Jesus' hands; and that His acknowledgment gave them the right to continue to lead the faithful astray.

Jesus, silently, bent down and wrote in the sand. One can argue that the Scriptures don't tell us what was written in the sand - but the reality of the situation is obvious when He stands up and says, "The sinless one among you, go first: Throw the stone." (The Message Bible). The above direct quote from RJP indicates that he would have wound up and delivered his stone. Is that the Christianity you want to espouse? Not me. I am glad that my Savior loves sinners and will stand with them hand-in-hand as they struggle to step out of their sinful nature and be remade in His image. The truth is, I don't love RJP the way I should. I find his methods disgusting and vile. I find his hatred of other people to violate everything I read in scripture . . . and in the end, I get on my knees and ask the One Being who knows how to love someone like that to help me love them the same way.

Duane, Roger, Greg, Alex, I ask you, "Is this the type of Christianity, the RJP type, the one you want to espouse?" Or, do you want to exhibit the same love the Savior did when he told the woman accused, "Woman, where are they? Does no one condemn you? [ ] Neither do I. Go your way. From now on, don't sin." Maybe the Christ at the well would be a better example than the incitation from RJP? Jesus did not expose the woman's sins to anyone, in front of anyone, did not embarrass her, did not seek to ridicule or marginalize her. Instead he filled her life with purpose and meaning. Jesus left her knowing that, even though her life had not been a mirror of the Savior - it could be, if she walked with Him. Do you see yourselves better than Tommy? If you followed the suggestions of RJP you would be placing yourself in the shoes of the Deceiver, who seeks to present us to the world and God as worthless, undeserving of God's love. Do you want that role or do you want to share the love that God graciously affords you, the grace that God provides you - though you don't deserve it?

- prof
steffan
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Demon-led Pickle and Gailon, and followers, beware

Post by steffan »

Little does Adam realize that this exact thing is what the jackal pack, led by Linda, Johann, Mundall, Fiscalini, Westphal, Rhodes, Pickle and Gailon have been doing.

As Adam stated
Character Assassination refers to the slandering or vicious personal verbal attack on a person with the intention of destroying or damaging that person’s reputation or confidence. In other words it is malicious verbal assaults designed to damage or tarnish the reputation of a person. Once done, these acts are often difficult to reverse or rectify. Therefore it is likened to a literal assassination of a human life. The damage sustained can last a lifetime or, for historical figures and important personalities, for many centuries after their death.

It involves a deliberate attempt to destroy a person's reputation, especially by criticizing them in an unfair and dishonest way when they are not present. It can also involve exaggeration or manipulation of facts to present an untrue picture of the targeted person, double speak, spreading of rumors, innuendo or deliberate misinformation on topics relating to the subject's morals, integrity, and reputation. It is a form of defamation.
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Penny
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Re: Demon-led Pickle and Gailon, and followers, beware

Post by Penny »

That's who I thought he was referring to! LOL!!
steffan wrote:Little does Adam realize that this exact thing is what the jackal pack, led by Linda, Johann, Mundall, Fiscalini, Westphal, Rhodes, Pickle and Gailon have been doing.

As Adam stated
Character Assassination refers to the slandering or vicious personal verbal attack on a person with the intention of destroying or damaging that person’s reputation or confidence. In other words it is malicious verbal assaults designed to damage or tarnish the reputation of a person. Once done, these acts are often difficult to reverse or rectify. Therefore it is likened to a literal assassination of a human life. The damage sustained can last a lifetime or, for historical figures and important personalities, for many centuries after their death.

It involves a deliberate attempt to destroy a person's reputation, especially by criticizing them in an unfair and dishonest way when they are not present. It can also involve exaggeration or manipulation of facts to present an untrue picture of the targeted person, double speak, spreading of rumors, innuendo or deliberate misinformation on topics relating to the subject's morals, integrity, and reputation. It is a form of defamation.
Penny
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Donna
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Re: Demon-led Pickle and Gailon, and followers, beware

Post by Donna »

I thought so too.
Penny wrote:That's who I thought he was referring to! LOL!!
steffan wrote:Little does Adam realize that this exact thing is what the jackal pack, led by Linda, Johann, Mundall, Fiscalini, Westphal, Rhodes, Pickle and Gailon have been doing.

As Adam stated
Character Assassination refers to the slandering or vicious personal verbal attack on a person with the intention of destroying or damaging that person’s reputation or confidence. In other words it is malicious verbal assaults designed to damage or tarnish the reputation of a person. Once done, these acts are often difficult to reverse or rectify. Therefore it is likened to a literal assassination of a human life. The damage sustained can last a lifetime or, for historical figures and important personalities, for many centuries after their death.

It involves a deliberate attempt to destroy a person's reputation, especially by criticizing them in an unfair and dishonest way when they are not present. It can also involve exaggeration or manipulation of facts to present an untrue picture of the targeted person, double speak, spreading of rumors, innuendo or deliberate misinformation on topics relating to the subject's morals, integrity, and reputation. It is a form of defamation.
"Most startling messages will be borne by men of God's appointment, messages of a character to warn the people, to arouse them. And while some will be provoked by the warning, and led to resist the light and evidence, we are to see from this that we are giving the testing message for this time." Evangelism, p. 168.
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Penny
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Unpublishable manuscript

Post by Penny »

At the other site, this was posted:
Now, I do have a quesiton for Sister, though. Are you still maintaining that you get no information from Linda, or that she is not your source? Some of these scenarios happen with only Linda and Danny present, and unless this is a really, really sick situation, I know Danny is not your source. Plus, there are a whole lot of Linda's unexressed thoughts during the scenarios. I mean at this point, she realy can tell all she wants. So I see nothing wrong with it, except that in the past, especailly during the time of the "gag order", it was maintained that Linda was not the source of any information posted.
http://www.adventtalk.com/forums/index. ... l#msg27467

If Linda is not the source then it is evidence that through and through it is a work of complete fiction. (Doesn't EGW have something to say about reading novels?) Yet astonishing how some have taken it as the gospel truth.

The other site is a place where bitterness, meanness, hatred (yes) are tolerated and even condoned, as in "we hate Danny, we hate 3ABN - if you have anything to say to foster our hatred towards them or to anything or person connected with them (except for Linda), come here and say it."

Is this really "a place for members and friends of the Seventh-day Adventist Church!". "Feel free to invite your friends to come here" - huh?
Penny
mrst53
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Re: "By their fruits you will know them"

Post by mrst53 »

Penny,
Sister did go on to say that some of the info came from Linda after the gag order was up.
I am not a SDA, so I don't know about reading fiction for SDAs or writing fiction. I guess it would depend on whether you would be "old school SDA" or the "new liberal SDA". I ran into a "new liberal SDA" on Sunday..We were at a buffet and she was eating chicken and beef and I was shocked. She said could not eat pork.I imagine we have to let each one work out their own salvation before God and just pray for them to see the light.
mrst53
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Re: "By their fruits you will know them"

Post by mrst53 »

I have notice alot of anger and things taken out of context on the other site and have asked that they take some time and pray before they reply. We can disagree without being hurtful. Whether we agree or not. This entire situation with Tommy, Danny and Linda has everyone who is connected with it concerned and upset, no matter which side they are on, but as Christians, we should be able to agree to disagree.
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Penny
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Jesus was not a vegetarian...

Post by Penny »

mrst53 wrote:Penny,
Sister did go on to say that some of the info came from Linda after the gag order was up.
I am not a SDA, so I don't know about reading fiction for SDAs or writing fiction. I guess it would depend on whether you would be "old school SDA" or the "new liberal SDA". I ran into a "new liberal SDA" on Sunday..We were at a buffet and she was eating chicken and beef and I was shocked. She said could not eat pork.I imagine we have to let each one work out their own salvation before God and just pray for them to see the light.
Yes, indeed, as you have noted Sister has recently stated that some of her info came from Linda and that some came from other sources. I continue to have my doubts about the veracity of the account, since it is an unabashed fictionalized version of events, with its primary objective to disparage Danny and 3ABN and to exalt Linda. The author(s) does not indicate that she is relating Linda's recollection or memoirs of the events (and anyone is entitled to remember events however they choose to), but rather the author implies that the manuscript is a true and faithful representation of all the facts, which it is not, though there is a small audience at AT who believe every word of it.

---------------------------------------------

You cannot box all Adventists into "old school" or "new liberal." Some of the rules or perceived rules of Adventism are based in our Puritanical background and in my opinion, are not Biblical. That doesn't mean that there something is "wrong" with one rule or the other, but many rules are not doctrine and should not be taken as such. Perhaps "old school" may be more of the "accept without question" Adventism, and I suspect that many are not doing that anymore. If there is good Biblical support, then follow it. This, I believe, is a middle ground between the two extremes of "old school" conservative and "new liberal".

About meat-eating...the Bible does not state anywhere that meat eating is not permitted. Indeed, as we all know, God (at the time of Noah, and also through Moses) set out guidelines (or restrictions) on what meats were permissible for food, and even Jesus ate fish. Would you be just as shocked to see Jesus eating fish and pray for Him to see "the light" too? I know the arguments of what EGW writes of (against) eating meat or discontinuing to do so and I fully agree, as I myself am a vegetarian. But it is not my duty or your duty to judge anyone else for doing something that is not condemned in the Bible.

You are correct, in my opinion, when you write that each person must work out his/her own salvation. It is not my responsibility (or yours or anyone else's for that matter) to work out someone else's salvation. It's not possible and all to often when we try to do so, it has entirely the opposite effect.
Penny
mrst53
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Re: "By their fruits you will know them"

Post by mrst53 »

Penny,
I was not judging anyone. Instead of saying shocked, I guess I should have said surprised. After reading the comments on the other site and from the other Adventists have known, they did not eat ANY MEAT. I am a Methodist/Baptist/Brethern/Christian- so I don't judge anyone in whatever they choose to eat. I try not to judge anyone, period. I found myself judging Tommy and the Lord really got on me for that.
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Lilly
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Re: "By their fruits you will know them"

Post by Lilly »

"By their fruits, ye shall know them"

"For as he thinketh in his heart, so is he."

While I can't perceive the thoughts and intents of the heart, yet I know that often what is said is what is believed in the heart. These words below by Gailon Arthur Joy are very severe in my thinking. Murderous hatred is hard to comprehend in a human being. Especially when the hateful person is a stranger to the ones he hates and desires to see dead. This is a threat to Danny and Tommy Shelton's lives.

This also clearly portrays the real character of Gailon Joy.

Gailon Arthur Joy
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Re: "He Stayed On The Cross" - by Tommy Shelton
« Reply #2 on: Yesterday at 09:30:49 PM »

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I would like to arrange a CROSS for Tommy Ray Shelton. There is no doubt that a crucifixion would be an appropriate final solution for the likes of miscreant ministers of the gospel such as Tommy Ray Shelton.

Any suggestions for Danny Lee Shelton? Of course we could consider some "muslim" alternatives, but they usually reserve them to women...yup, discrimination does reign supreme in the Islamist Muslim world. Wonder if we can "reverse discriminate" against Danny Lee Shelton...I believe stoning is the prescribed solution for adulterers.


Gailon Arthur Joy
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