Great Controversy

An OPEN DISCUSSION forum to discuss 3ABN RELATED ISSUES -including posts or articles published elsewhere.

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Truth
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Great Controversy

Postby Truth » Thu Oct 20, 2011 12:38 pm America/Denver

Johann thinks it best not to give people the 3-angels messages that is in the book, The Great Hope. Satan worked the hardest on Mrs. White at the time she wrote it because he hated that book the most. He knew it had the truth in it.

If Johann's house was on fire in the middle of the night and he and his wife and children were sleeping, you can bet I would be knocking on his door and yelling for he and his family to get out. If Johann came to the door and told me to stop bothering him, I would stop but his blood would no longer be on me. It would make me feel sad to think that he and his family chose to die.

This is why we give the 3-angel's messages to the world. To WARN THEM of the coming JUDGMENT and the wrath of God that is soon to pour out on the land. If Johann and his friends want to sleep on, that is their business but don't be critical of the General Conference President who WANTS to share the truth with those who sincerely are looking and longing for truth and to know Jesus.

THAT is what 3ABN does--they give the whole complete 3-angel's messages and anyone who tries to stop them is working for the devil.
Last edited by Cynthia on Thu Nov 03, 2011 7:56 pm America/Denver, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Topic split- retitled new topic

Nestor
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Re: Great Controversy

Postby Nestor » Sat Oct 29, 2011 9:23 am America/Denver

My wish for you-all is that you will be enriched by the Sabbath blessing that awaits you.

Truth: Mass distribution of THE GREAT CONTROVERSY.

The edition that is being distributed to 162,000,000 people is not an edition that you have ever read. It is a much shorter version. The first ten chapters are removed. Chapters have been edited with some parts removed and wording changed in other parts. Some material has been inserted in places where it does not appear in the edition that you have read.

Honest people can differ as to whether or not the above should have been done. They can differ as to whether or not such an edition should be mass circulated.

Then there is another issue:

One person who comes from a SDA missionary family who lived and worked in a Catholic country in South America has posted to the effect that such mass circulations close Catholic doors to the Adventist message.

Here is where I am on this issue:

1) THE GREAT CONTROVERSY is a valued book that has a place in Adventist mission.
2) There are probably better works by EGW what can lead a person to give their lives to Christ.
3) The 1911 edition of THE GREAT CONTROVERSY is probably best used with people who have committed their lives to Christ and are seeking more knowledge.
4) Due to the extensive editing of the edition that is being mass circulated, which I have not read, I am netutral as to wheteher or not this is the best book to mass circulate to a population that is largely not committed to Christ.

In any case, in my opinion, there is room for honest people on both sides of this question and I favor the discussion continuing.

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Cynthia
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Re: Great Controversy

Postby Cynthia » Wed Nov 02, 2011 8:04 pm America/Denver

Nestor,

I agree that honest people can disagree, but I also believe honest people who disagree with the established fundamental beliefs and pillars of faith of the Seventh-day Adventist church should do what other honest protestants have always historically done since Marin Luther first protested and disagreed. Follow the dictates of their conscience and join another church, or start their own... It's strange to me how all this babble and confusion aka"we have the right to disagree" stuff is going on within our churches and conferences by all these folks who want to change things for others. That said, this is not the thread (off topic) or forum to debate about whether you or anyone else thinks that the Great Controversy is Catholic bashing, or whether you disagree with the following reason given for the Great Hope Challenge:
The challenge is based on: 1) Revelation 18:1 that describes how God will illuminate the world with the gospel of Jesus Christ “And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory”; and 2) on the urgency of Ellen White to give this book a unparalleled distribution: “The Great Controversy should be very widely circulated. It contains the story of the past, the present, and the future… I am more anxious to see a wide circulation for this book than for any others I have written; for in The Great Controversy, the last message of warning to the world is given more distinctly than in any of my other books” (Colporteur Ministry, 127).


You are entitled to your opinion but so are we and as you said, honest people may disagree.. I do, with you.. and most here would also. I think. That said, as far as I am concerned there is nothing to debate here.

but... as you are making unsupported claims here, I do have to ask what in the world are you taking about, and what is the source of your information ? Obviously we don't want unsupported claims, or false reports or misinformation given here, and I am sure you do not either.

You claimed:
Mass distribution of THE GREAT CONTROVERSY.
The edition that is being distributed to 162,000,000 people is not an edition that you have ever read. It is a much shorter version. The first ten chapters are removed. Chapters have been edited with some parts removed and wording changed in other parts. Some material has been inserted in places where it does not appear in the edition that you have read.


Here is my differing understanding:

Distribution Methods
1. While the GCP goals and programs will be coordinated at the General Conference, Division, Union, Conference/Mission, and institutional levels of the Church, every individual Church administrator, pastor, Church worker and member is encouraged to be involved in the distribution of The Great Controversy as an integral part of the Tell the World and Revival and Reformation emphasis.
2. It is recommended that each entity of the Church assign a person or group of people to manage GCP; ideally the project can be added to the portfolio of the Tell the World and/or Revival and Reformation coordinator or committee.
3. Each Division has the latitude to print and distribute[b] the entire The Great Controversy or any part thereof (i.e., The Impending Crisis or the final chapters of The Great Controversy). Some Divisions may print a portion of The Great Controversy and then direct the reader to the website (or an app) where the entire volume may be located and read.
4. All print versions of The Great Controversy should include a Bible Study card and/or an invitation to visit a Seventh-day Adventist church in the area or information on where to go to learn more about the great controversy theme.
5. It is recommended that the Division Publishing Houses shall print copies of The Great Controversy for their respective territories in the respective languages of population groups.


and my source of information, and where I got the above quotes:
http://greatcontroversyproject.adventis ... erview.pdf
~ Cindy

Nestor
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Re: Great Controversy

Postby Nestor » Thu Nov 03, 2011 2:16 am America/Denver

Cynthia said:
. . . I also believe honest people who disagree with the established fundamental beliefs and pillars of faith of the Seventh-day Adventist church should do what other honest protestants have always historically done since Marin Luther first protested and disagreed. Follow the dictates of their conscience and join another church, or start their own...


The question that you have raised is this: What are the "established fundamental beliefs and pillars of the faith of the Seventh-day Adventist Chruch" that should determine whether or not someone is a Seventh-day Adventist?

Church historians have generally defined the "pillars of the faith" as five (not 28): The sabbath, spirit of prophecy, state of the dead, sanctuary and second advent. This set of five is the most generally accepted listed.

Our "Fundamental beliefs" have been listed as 25 (1872). 28 (1889), 22 (1931) 27 1980) and presently 28 again. { have taken this listing from the page iv fothe 1988 book of 27. This same book on page vii clearly stated that the 27 is NOT intended to be a creed--IOW it is nto intended to be a standard to determine whether or nto one is SDA.

What then is the standard? Simply put, the standard is the 13 baptisimal vows as listed in any edition of the CHRUCH MANUAL that you wish to reference. The paging will differ accordint to the edition that you are looking at. In the 2000 edition the 13 begin on page 32. In that edition the 27 are listed and it is clearly stated on page 9 that the 27 are subject to revision. The test of membership is the 13 and not any other list.

Nestor
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Re: Great Controversy

Postby Nestor » Thu Nov 03, 2011 5:38 pm America/Denver

Cynthia: Thank you for the information that you have provided. YOu have given me information that I did not know. (I do not possess all knowledge.) I still think that the figures taht I provided are accurate for one edition that is probably being distrubuted in North America. But, it may not be the edition that is distributed in some other placles.

In any case, as the evidence you have provided tells us that some editions of the GC may be edited with material removed my basic position that there are honest people who would object to the wisdom of such editions being circulated.

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Cynthia
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Re: Great Controversy

Postby Cynthia » Sat Nov 05, 2011 7:57 am America/Denver

Nestor wrote:Cynthia: Thank you for the information that you have provided. YOu have given me information that I did not know. (I do not possess all knowledge.) I still think that the figures taht I provided are accurate for one edition that is probably being distrubuted in North America. But, it may not be the edition that is distributed in some other placles.

In any case, as the evidence you have provided tells us that some editions of the GC may be edited with material removed my basic position that there are honest people who would object to the wisdom of such editions being circulated.


No problem,I provide documentation as i think it necessary, but respectfully you have not given me the information I asked for.

I posted:
"as you are making unsupported claims here, I do have to ask what in the world are you taking about, and what is the source of your information ? Obviously we don't want unsupported claims, or false reports or misinformation given here, and I am sure you do not either."

You answered: "the figures taht I provided are accurate for one edition that is probably being distrubuted in North America. But, it may not be the edition that is distributed in some other placles."

Your answer is that what you said is "accurate" but, "probably" and "May not be" is not really good enough when I specifically asked you what the source of your information was due to you posting as if it was a bonifide fact:""The edition that is being distributed to 162,000,000 people is not an edition that you have ever read. It is a much shorter version. The first ten chapters are removed. Chapters have been edited with some parts removed and wording changed in other parts. Some material has been inserted in places where it does not appear in the edition that you have read."

You are correct "honest people who would object to the wisdom of such editions being circulated" Especially the parts I have bold texted, so coming back and claiming that your figures are accurate for one edition being distributed in North America after being asked about it without supporting your claims about that or providing any additional sources, or links etc just doesn't work... for me, or; I dare say, for many others... I'm sure you can understand that...
~ Cindy

Nestor
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Re: Great Controversy

Postby Nestor » Sat Nov 05, 2011 9:35 am America/Denver

Cynthia:

I was probably wrong in regard to the 162,000,000 figure in my post.

You have given me information that I did not know--that permission had been granted for various editionss to be cirtulated, some edited and others the full edition.

I have been unable to document what I stated in my post as to who is producing it, where it is being circulated and who is circulating it. If I can do so, I will provide it. The figures that I cited did not come from me. But, I do not have the who and where.

My major point was that hones people may disagree as to whether or not an edited edition of the GC should be circulated.

My personal position, as I stated, was that I am neutral as I have not personally seen the cited edition and therefore do not have an opinion on it.

Nestor
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Re: Great Controversy

Postby Nestor » Sat Nov 05, 2011 9:41 am America/Denver

I got my figures from the following, but I have not yet documented it.



"Most of the copies that will be distributed under this plan are actually condensed versions of the nearly 700-page volume. For example, Project Steps to Christ, an ASI-member organization, publishes an abridgement which they will distribute through direct mail at 65 cents per household. Any organization or individual can pay for delivery in communities they select.

This version is 112 pages in a small paperback format and carries a new title, On The Edge of Time. The main thing the abridgers did to shorten this beloved, but hefty, book was simply to leave out the first two-thirds, which deals with the history of the early reformers, the Protestant Reformation, and the early Adventist movement in Europe and America, the story of William Miller and others. Chapter 29 in the original volume, “The Origin of Evil,” is chapter 1 in this version.

These 13 chapters included in the abridged version are condensed. Some of the material that has been removed includes quotations from early Catholic journals saying that Protestants ought to keep the Sabbath if they are really against Catholicism, much of the discussion of detailed prophecy charts, most of the description of the papacy and its policies, material on the sanctuary and its relevance to our time, as well as considerable repetition and some illustrative stories, both biblical and non-biblical.

The main principles of “the conflict of the ages” are still there. The material that is retained is not changed, but is word-for-word the originally-published Ellen White material.

The other major change is some reordering of the chapters. After shortened versions of the original chapters 29, 31, 33, and 34, this version jumps back in the time line and inserts some of chapters 17, 25, and 27, including Jesus’ promise to return and the signs of His second coming. It leaves out the Lisbon earthquake as fulfillment of prophecy. There is a presentation of the three angels’ messages of Revelation 14, the Sabbath, some review of prophecy time lines, a discussion of 1798, and the “lamb-like beast” of Revelation 13.

This version then goes back to Chapter 36 from the original and follows the full version, abridging it some, but retaining the main message. It greatly reduces the description of the time of trouble, people worrying about “one sin not repented,” the appearance of the ark in heaven just before Jesus comes, the detailed reunion of Adam with Christ, and other more features from the original that have raised arguments. The famous and lyrical ending is intact.

It introduces people to the traditional Seventh-day Adventist understanding of the great battle between good and evil, and how it will end. Yet, it is not precise about every small detail in the traditional telling of this narrative. The emphasis is on how the reader can align with God’s side in their daily lives and look forward to Christ’s promised return."

Nestor
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Re: Great Controversy

Postby Nestor » Sat Nov 05, 2011 6:57 pm America/Denver

http://www.interamerica.org/users/index ... anguage=en

The following was taken from the above SDA website.

Apr 12, 2011
Top regional leaders of the Seventh-day Adventist world church shared reports on evangelism efforts in their territories during the Council on Evangelism and Witness, which lasted throughout the first morning of business at Spring Meeting on April 10.


Sabbath School/Personal Ministries leaders from the Inter-American Division, left, and the world church lead some 130 members of the denomination's Executive Committee in shouting "Go Seven Million," the name of an initiative they hope will motivate 7 mil

12 Apr 2011, Huntsville, Alabama, United States...Ansel Oliver/ANN

Top regional leaders of the Seventh-day Adventist world church shared reports on evangelism efforts in their territories during the Council on Evangelism and Witness, which lasted throughout the first morning of business at Spring Meeting on April 10.

Presidents of many of the denomination's 13 world divisions highlighted how coordinated outreach approaches are leading people to join the church, while others supported an initiative to widely distribute versions of the book The Great Controversy, written by church co-founder Ellen G. White.
• * * * * *
The book will be released in several versions, including the original, an abbreviated version, one for kids, and an additional version that includes excerpts from another of the author's books, Steps to Christ. Parts of the initiative will also be promoted on social media, [Dr. Delbert] Baker said.


The above is a clear statement related to a specific abbreviated edition.

My origonal quote may have described the one mentioned above.

Nestor
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Re: Great Controversy

Postby Nestor » Wed Jan 11, 2012 7:28 am America/Denver

Cynthlia said:

[quote]but... [sic.] you are making unsupported claims here, I do have to ask what in the world are you taking about, and what is the source of your information ? Obviously we don't want unsupported claims, or false reports or misinformation given here, and I am sure you do not either.[quote/]

Well, the following wesite will give you additional documentation:

http://www.adventistreview.org/article.php?id=5021

The above URL is an official announcement from the REVIEW. It is an authorative statement to the effect that in the example cited the book being circulated is a very much shortened version of what we generally call THE GREAT CONTROVERSY. Personally, I would probably favor this, if I were to see what is being circulated. So, my comments in the past are not negative. However, it points out, in my thinking, that many of those who aplaud the circulation do not understand what is being circulated. I also think that if they knew, some who wish for the entire book to be circulated, would object to the circulation of this smaller version.


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